SPEAKER_01 0:00

If you are an entrepreneur listening to this, I want you to think about the most human part of your business. Maybe it's the way you you know you sit with the client during a crisis or the specific way you listen to their problems before offering a solution. Most of us are terrified of systems. We think that if we automate our own boarding or build a rigid fork flow, we will become robotic. We are convinced that if we don't handle every single intake form and admin task detail personally, our clients will feel the cold touch of a machine. But the truth is that most of us are trapped in the $10 an hour admin trap, right? We're so busy washing the jerseys of our own business, filling paperwork and chasing signatures that we have lost the emotional energy to actually be present for the people we serve. Today's guest is here to prove that rigor is actually the foundational of empathy. Jasmine Hathaway is the founder of Compass Coordinators and the co-founder of House. She didn't build her architecture of care because she wanted to save money on staff. She built it because she had to survive. In 2015, while eight months pregnant, Jasmine lost her husband Alan to cancer. And in the middle of all that heartbreak, she found herself drowning in the business side of death. A paralyzing bureaucracy of closing accounts and managing estates while her world was falling apart. She realized that while the world offers emotional support for grief, it leaves family completely abandoned to the logistics. Coming up, Jasmine shares how she used that pain to revolutionize the after loss industry. Our guest today, Jasmine Hathaway. She is a founder of Compass Coordinators, and she didn't build her business because she wanted to scale, she built it because she had a survival prousing of grief bureaucracy. Today we're talking about why a rigor about actually the foundation of empathy and building an architecture of care allows you to be human for your clients instead of just an administrator. Welcome, Jasmine.

SPEAKER_00 2:07

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01 2:08

Jasmine, I'm just gonna get right into it. So we know we often think that systems and automations are the enemies of the human connection, right? So and then but you argue the complete opposite that without a rigid machine in the background, you're just too exhausted to actually be empathetic. So can you share a little bit more about that feedback and and that uh North Star that you have?

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Sure. Yeah, so I think it's important to um to explain that I got into this to help people, and that is where my heart is. That's what I really want to do. It's super important to me, and I'm sure I'm not alone. A lot of us are called to do something meaningful with our time here, and so um that is really what's important to me. And so I basically use that to figure out how I can set myself up to be able to have the best impact without burning myself out and spending time on these, you know, frustrating and repetitive and kind of like tasks that felt like they were keeping me away from my purpose. So I think you know, the systems and processes that I've set up actually give me more bandwidth to be able to focus my energy on the things that really matter.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

Yeah, and we were just talking offline. It's like if she automated and systematized her business, you can too. So absolutely there's no excuse about that. So and in in every business, right? And you you're no different, there's there's a specific moment in in your career in your life that I was like, enough is enough. In yours is uh a situation that uh other women out there can can relate, right? So back to 2017, you shared with me that you were eight months pregnant and unfortunately just hot lost your husband at that time, and you're staring at this 20-page state checklist, right? So share us a little bit about that moment, what triggered and what were you feeling, and then it's like, okay, enough is enough. We're gonna do this thing differently.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

Yeah, yeah. So I I um I it was actually uh 2015. Um, it's close. 2015, yeah. So that I was widowed and working full-time and trying to figure out what I needed to do as this new role was placed in my lap of being executor. So um I I was completely unprepared for basically what felt like taking on another part-time job. Like I I already wasn't sleeping, you know, having a baby at home. Like I just was like beyond overwhelmed with all of the stuff that I was having to do to track down all of his accounts and like figure out whose name was on the utility bill because they were telling me my electricity was gonna get shut off. And you know, I I just had all of these additional stressors and it felt like nothing made sense. I mean, I I just was really struggling with grief fog, and so even being a um, you know, normally pretty capable, like on top of it kind of a person, like I'm used to getting stuff done, it really caught me off guard to feel like those executive functioning skills had left me. And so, um, so I I just couldn't wrap my head around how I was the person expected to be the expert in in like sorting through fact and fiction and like filling out really detailed forms correctly the first time, you know, like and and then following up when things didn't happen the way that they were supposed to. And that is actually a very common experience for executors that I didn't realize at the time because I I just thought I was the only person going through this. You know, I didn't have a ton of peers who were young, you know, mothers. Uh you know, I I was 30 years old, I didn't have a lot of other people who would who could say, yeah, this is normal. And so that's really the idea for the business is just coming alongside people who have lost a loved one. They're in this position where they have the legal authority to do the work, but they have no idea how to do it. They don't know the right people, they don't know the right order, they don't they don't know how to do any of that stuff. And so actually, systems and processes kind of save the day. I mean, that's really what I'm bringing to the table. So I can show up and be empathetic and patient and kind of break down really overwhelming and complicated tasks in a way that makes sense to people who um are going through what's usually one of the hardest and most difficult times of their lives.

SPEAKER_01 7:04

Yes, absolutely that it is. And so with that checklist, do you feel like you you can help your client move forward with, you know, especially they're paralyzed right at that moment, full of the emotional overwhelming that they're feeling right now?

SPEAKER_00 7:19

Yeah, yeah. So checklists come into play um in a lot of different aspects of this work, actually. I um I am a big fan of a checklist. So um, so I really the core of the engagement is that um prioritized list of things that we have to do. And so that really is what we're revisiting every time we come together. Um, and so the delivery of the engagement is really kind of focused on like, all right, what do we have left to do? What's the status of the previous task? I'm really kind of project managing as we go along. Um, but I mean, I have a lot of clients who could care less about that checklist. They really do not care. They they care that I care about it, but they don't spend a lot of time in a spreadsheet or, you know, a system or whatever it is. They don't really care as long as things move along. And so as soon as I got that in my head, like I needed to separate like the value that I'm bringing is not my technology, and it's definitely, you know, it's not whether it doesn't even matter whether or not they can screen share with me or whatever. It matters how I show up.

SPEAKER_01 8:32

And so that's so good.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Spending that that time and energy to be fully present and to listen and to really help them through this difficult time is what actually matters. So that that's how those two pieces kind of play together.

SPEAKER_01 8:50

I I love you sitting, and uh I often say to new staff that uh we are you're about to be getting through a CPA firm, and a lot of uh students in college they think they're gonna become a certified accountant, but they forget that the P in the middle it stands for public, right? It's not just the government in the middle, but it's also your clients, your co-workers, the vendors around you. You know, you deal with a lot of CPAs, and we do a lot of with estate planners like yourself. So that P of showing up and being personal is the most important part. And based on what you just said, the checklist allow you for your brain to focus on that part of your business instead of thinking about did I do step two, five, and seven, right? And just going back and forth.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Right, right, exactly. So I know that I am uh kind of delivering things in a really consistent way, and I'm keeping track of what we have and haven't done. Um, and that's a huge value add for my clients. And I wouldn't be able to do that if I didn't already have um those systems and tools set up and ready to go, so I didn't have to reinvent the wheel every single time.

SPEAKER_01 10:03

Yes, that reinventing the wheel and creating custom work all the time. It yes, you want to be creative, but there's a part of the creation process that is going to be repeated. As you mentioned, you know, it's a repeatable process. So going back just a little bit, you mentioned, I think it's kind of like the brain, the brain fog, right? Like because of the trauma. And and you help these your clients move away from that paralysis. Can you share a little bit of, you know, like three or five specific kind of baby steps that you take with your clients? Like, look, you don't have to do the 50 list of you know, 50 items on that checklist. Let's just do these three things.

SPEAKER_00 10:42

Yeah, yeah. So um a lot of my clients are widows. Um, that's that's my preferred kind of ideal client um avatar there. And so um, so my my clients are often um kind of just looking for something to do, like they're reaching for things that feel like uh like easy to accomplish, or you know, like um something that makes them feel like they have maybe some control over the situation, you know, they they're they're looking for maybe like a subscription that they can cancel, right? And so um one of the first things that I do with my clients is talk about, all right, um, we need to talk about some financial situation um questions first. We need to make sure that you are good. You need to have access to money and you need to have credits. And so um, we need to talk about your bank accounts and your credit cards and what has your name on it versus what has your spouse's name on it. So um, those are often the things that like maybe it's a little bit difficult to talk about, it's a little uncomfortable. Um, but I really want to make sure that my client is okay, that they're not gonna be doing things that end up having a um an impact down the line that they didn't see coming, right? So um, so we kind of need to untangle like any mess, any like uh bills that are automatically pulled from different accounts. And so we need to really pop the hood and figure out like, all right, what are we dealing with here? Before we do anything, we have to take stock of what all you have, you know, set up in your life and what you understand and what we're gonna have to figure out. Maybe like there's some information that needs to be filled in by other professionals. So if there's a financial advisor or a CPA or an attorney, maybe they can fill in some of these gaps for you so we can create this plan and then, you know, like organize these documents for you because you're gonna be referencing them a lot during the engagement. So we're really kind of like focusing on like making sure that they have a good solid foundation set up and that they don't have any like immediate concerns, like I can't stay in my house where I don't have access to pay you know for this bill or whatever it is. Um, and that you know, they're they're gonna be okay in the short term while we work through and set up a plan for a longer-term um situation for them. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Yes, it does. And um the little part that I know, and you can virtually slap me in the face in a little bit, if I say something wrong right now, but I tell clients, like, look, go and the you know, the witterers that come that come through my office, and you know, they're this is the big going to be their very first taxes and that they were gonna actually do everything because the husband or the wife took care of everything else. And uh I tell them, Look, the the best place to start is look at the past three months of your bank statements, the past three months of your credit card statements, right? And then you can start remarking and color-coding your recurring expenses, uh, the things that show up, you know, utility bills and and maybe a Netflix or YouTube subscription that you might have that you didn't already have, right? Um and if uh that kind of gives them an idea, okay, I can I can see now my little bit of my inventory, but of course, that is just the CPA side, right? In your world, there's so much more than that. Um then so and offline you you talk about you know kind of the the software trap, right? So just kind of translating a little bit of what you do into other service business owners out there. Um you you know, if you put a bad process on a great software, that is still a bad process, right? Um and so how much of that human workflow into that crisis, right, before you even touch that digital tool, do you spend time on thinking about? Because that's what attracted me to to find out about more about you. That you know, our web designer connected the two of us, and she was like, She has the best automation and systems on this platform that I ever seen. So it's like cool, I don't want to talk about this person.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

Yeah, it's all mapped out well before we touch a tool, you know. So we definitely have um lots and lots of time spent um, you know, mapping out what the process looks like with clients and then um and kind of testing those assumptions too. Like I will say that like one of the early um kind of pain points that I had in my business was I thought I was going to be delivering my services in a completely different way than I actually ended up delivering them. So I had made all kinds of assumptions of around taking things off of people's plates, doing tasks for my clients. And I actually don't really do that at all. And so it really kind of um forced me to be a little bit more flexible and um shift into more of like a coaching role with my clients. And so that it actually is a great fit for my skills and background and my approach to, and it also helps me um really have a more consistent engagement um because it's structured around those meetings with my clients. Um, but yeah, early on, you know, I was like, all right, I'm gonna have to be like making all these phone calls, spending all this time on hold, and I'm I'm just yeah, I never know what I'm gonna be like running into, which it is true. Every client is different, but you know, it is it's totally different. So I really had to like scrap a lot of like early models and early kind of like communication templates and different things like that in order to build out things that actually supported the real way that I was working with clients and not the way that I thought I should be working with clients.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Oh, that's good because uh yeah, that testing of the models so important. So you it in I know you have two business, right? And then we have focused this part of just you know that one of one of your core business, but can you tell a little bit more about the the the side of the of the other side of your business or that you partner with other people?

SPEAKER_00 17:35

Yeah, yeah. So, you know, when I started doing this work, um, I didn't didn't really have a name for it. I just you know knew that it was a need in my life. And then I connected with other people that I felt like I could make a difference for. And then um I quickly found out that there were other people in other states who were doing the same thing that I was, which was amazing. And so we um started meeting on a regular basis. We connected and decided to call it after loss services. Um, and so having a common language for what this service was was really cool. And we just started saying, like, hey, like, how did you solve this problem? How did you get in front of a real person at this company? You know, like how are you doing this work? And so um, we just got so much out of that community and that support that we decided to formalize it and open it up to anybody who wanted to learn how to be an afterloss professional, too. So my second business is co-founded with other women in other states, and we call it professionals of after loss services. Um, and we actually have a course to teach people how to do this work as well and a membership. Um, so we have more than a hundred people across the country now who um are an amazing resource. Um, so talk about getting things done quickly. Um, you really amplify your impact by having all of these professionals all across the country who can help point you in the right direction when you get, you know, hit a roadblock in your um in your own business. So it's just amazing.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

That that's amazing. And and you're leveraging those systems and multiple and those on those two businesses, right? So um in you know, you you talk about you know uh the training systems of you know, what training others. How do you maintain that level standard? Um, are you checking? I know you mentioned you have a weekly basis meeting, but uh, do you do they have a certification that they have to renew it once a year? And and absolutely, I would love to share those those links in the show notes after after the fact.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Yeah, sure. So um, so people who want to become After Lost professionals um can become members, and then in the training, we have an opportunity to do a cohort. So with a group of people, we usually do that twice a year in the spring and the fall, and we meet every Friday to discuss the video lessons and the homework and the case study that they've done um asynchronously. So they're doing studying, you know, and and learning on their own, bringing their questions and um getting feedback from me and my other co-founders who can say, all right, don't forget this thing, or you missed this piece or whatever. So you're kind of practicing in a safe environment before you go out and work with real clients. Um, and so at this point, you know, we have uh really combined all of these best practices across all of our um different co-founders and how we approach our client work. And we've combined all of that into one kind of um master training program. Um, and that is the that's the system. And we we kind of like packaged all of these resources and um we really hand that over to people who are interested in um learning how to do this a little bit faster than than we did with a lot of trial and error. So we really wanted to save people some time um and so they could get started working working with clients as quickly as possible.

SPEAKER_01 21:21

Yeah, and and I've heard on one not your specific, but on another seminar, there was talking sub subjects like yours that when I approach a client about thinking about them selling a business or you know passing that on to their kids, that you never talk about you know getting hit by a bus. You never talk if everybody talks about that. But if you do have to bring it up, you bring it up in the past. So, like, hey, if you got hit in the by a bus yesterday, which you know it makes it real for them, like hey, it never happened. I'm here, right? Right? And and that allows them to actually think through about the problem instead of thinking about dying tomorrow. Yeah, right. So I I I want to translate your content on both sides, right? The the state planning, the after loss care, and the training. So let's say you are a contractor or an agency listening to this right now, okay? And but I understand that they might not be dealing with death and they might be dealing with their client's worst day. You know, a flooded basement, uh, an IRS account that is past due, right? An ad account that is not working, so that they just kind of their client is stuck. And I want you to talk to them as if you're there, and it's like, hey, how can you bring the trust that you envision for your clients by delivering that services? Yes, you do have to follow the checklist, but you know, going back to the person that's right in front of you to building that the trust with them.

SPEAKER_00 22:50

Yeah. I mean, I think it really matters what is most important to them. And so um, I would definitely spend some time talking about that, you know, like connecting with someone where they're telling you they want to connect with you on instead of just making assumptions and giving them a resource or talking about a checklist or whatever. And so um I think your tip is a great one to talk about like something that happened yesterday. Walk me through what that looks like. You know, I I think that uh humans are just really amazing at avoiding thinking about things that are really hard. And so I would definitely put death in that category. And so I you can also like acknowledge that and like put language to that feeling that like, oh, this is really like difficult for me to think about, or like I just I am so uncomfortable with this. You know, I think it just helps kind of like bring the temperature down and normalizes it a little bit. Um, and just kind of, you know, as a professional, you just want to make it very clear what your goals are in having this conversation. You know, like I know this is really hard to think about, but this is important because your family is going to be so much better off. They're not gonna have to worry about making all these decisions for you and guessing what you would want to happen because you've already made the decisions now, you know, when it when the stakes aren't so high, right? So you can just hand over this and it's an amazing gift, right? So, like something like that to really like um to make it less scary to talk about.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

Uh, I love that you said amazing gift. And I know you also say that a will is never enough, right? For so for an entrepreneur that is thinking about that, they think that their house is in order, you know, what's kind of the like the digital estate planning kind of blind spot that they leave for their families to clean up that they never think about.

SPEAKER_00 24:56

Yeah, I mean, digital is that entire category, I would put that in a blind spot, you know. So um I I just find that very often we're not thinking about how much of our lives are lived online, you know, and how many accounts we have. Johnny, do you want to guess how many accounts an average person has online?

SPEAKER_01 25:20

Uh let's say 20.

SPEAKER_00 25:23

Uh it's over 150.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

Oh my goodness, I'll weigh off.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

Yeah. More than 150 digital accounts. And so your name, your email is all out there. And and maybe not all of those are things that are worth tracking down and and shutting down, but maybe some of them have like your credit card information stored in them, or maybe there's some money in your eBay account that you forgot about, or like, you know, there's all kinds of different like aspects of digital estates that people are really not considering. You know, like 20% of people have cryptocurrency assets now. Like that is crazy. I can tell you right now, most wills do not talk about who is in charge of closing down and accessing all of those digital accounts. And so the families are really left without a roadmap and they're just trying to do their best. You know, maybe they have some passwords and they're trying to log in and they get locked out because they, you know, they got a letter wrong or they couldn't read your handwriting or something like that. You know, each of these platforms are dictated by their own terms of service. And so they're really kind of like um navigating this landscape that doesn't have a clear roadmap at all. So after loss professionals can really um be helpful in in helping navigate that stuff, especially when we um bring a little bit more knowledge and a little bit more care to um managing these assets and helping people um deal with them as simply and as you know compliantly as possible. Because, you know, we the last thing that we want is for all of your photos to be, you know, never accessed again. You know, like those things really matter to people. Um and even if it's not a part of their estate plan, like their family is gonna be pretty upset if they can't access their, you know, grandma's newsletter that they that she's been emailing out for months, you know, at the end of her life. Like it's just those kinds of things um are a part of like what makes us human these days, and it's just not being um considered in traditional estate planning.

SPEAKER_01 27:52

Wow. Uh that's that's beautiful. I love it. I love it. And and so you mentioned, you know, going back to 2015, um, and that moment, and you could have crave or rise, and you chose to rise, and talk a little bit about that North Star, right? So um women in general, do you see their role involving right in this after loss and broaden more to the in that the industry that you're in today?

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Yeah, so um you're asking if if more women are gonna be drawn to this kind of work.

SPEAKER_01 28:29

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Yeah, yeah, and I think so. And it it is definitely um the burden falls on women a lot to be the the executor because we we live longer, and also it's the eldest daughter, you know, who usually is serves as executor for the parents. So it's a lot of women who are getting this wake-up call that there's all of this work and there's no one to help. Um, you know, there's lots of different factors that go into that these days. But yeah, I I see a lot of people really um, I would say, especially since COVID, really thinking about how they can use the time that they have on earth to make the biggest impact, you know, to do something that matters. And um, and so when they're looking around and they're thinking about, you know, what can I do that, you know, will connect me with that purpose, um, showing up for people in really difficult times and using skills like organization and project management and empathy um, you know, really ends up drawing people to the after loss services fields um more and more. So uh yeah, I I think the need is gonna continue to grow. And through that, the awareness that there are professionals who are specifically trained to do this work will grow as well.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Wow, and if the the entrepreneur, the business owner right now that is listening and they think they're going to live forever, I am one of them. Um what is the first system or the first vault per se that that you would say for them to set up right now with the intent of what you mentioned before of leaving a love letter to your wife, right? Because yes, I'm a man that probably uh in the average of of lifespan I'll be you know dying before my wife. So what should we do right now to leave that love letter to to my wife?

SPEAKER_00 30:36

Yeah, I mean, I I'm gonna bring it right back to systems and processes. You know, if you don't have your SOPs, if you don't have your client list um documented, if you don't have kind of the um roadmap to your business, do that now because that's not only gonna help, you know, take you out of the monotony of running your your business every day, but it's also gonna um allow you to have a roadmap for someone else. You know, if something were to happen to you, you got hit by a bus yesterday, you know, can someone take stock and understand your business? Like who are the vendors, who are the you know, players that need to be notified and paid? And you know, like how how is your business set up? Um, if someone needed to step in tomorrow, like I I really think that that is how how business owners need to be thinking about this. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 31:37

Yeah. Uh I I wholeheartedly agree with uh uh jasmine. What else? What have we not covered that you would like to share?

SPEAKER_00 31:45

Well, um I mean I think I think that like the way that I think about delivering a really empathetic and personal service is um is by like kind of taking all of the guesswork out of it and um thinking through you know what this looks like for you from the very beginning, you know, and I'm talking about like the marketing and identifying your ideal client and building a referral network because this is a referral-based business. So a big part of running this kind of service business is connecting with people and showing up and doing, you know, talks or workshops or whatever it is. And so, you know, mapping out what that actually looks like for you and how much time you're gonna spend on spreading the word about this brand new service and kind of connecting with the right people who can send clients your way. You know, it's a balance. You really have to like figure out how much of your um week is gonna be dedicated to like actually running this business versus your client delivery because um, you know, it's that's a piece of it too. Like, yes, we all want to show up um for our clients and do that right, that like amazing, meaningful work for them, but that can't happen unless you've made some time to um to come up with your plan for actually getting in front of the right people at the right time. So it starts like at the very, very, very beginning. Like all of that has checklists and tools and you know, like a a system so you can show up consistently and confidently every step of the way.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

Yes. Uh-huh. And uh I have a phrase that I use with my my staff all the time and with my clients ever now and then when the opportunity should arise, is and it's the I prefer to spend 10 minutes building a uh a spreadsheet that is a template that we'll we'll be using often, right, for this client and waste an hour today so I can save 10 minutes the next year. Yeah, right, because the spreadsheet is ready and done. So it's that trade-off, it's the short-term loss that you think of my time. However, that's how you scale, that's how you systematize and go faster next year, and you have to start working on it right now. So I absolutely love what you said there.

SPEAKER_00 34:20

Yeah, it's I call it CEO time, you know. Like I have to set aside some time to think about the business, to plan that stuff out, to make adjustments where things aren't working because it makes everything else easier.

SPEAKER_01 34:34

Um, would you mind sharing one system that you're working right now and you're tweaking as you go?

SPEAKER_00 34:42

Sure. Um, something that I'm working on right now. Uh well we are um in PALs. Um, we're launching a new course on digital assets, actually. And um, that's why I had all of those fun facts to share with you. So we're we're doing a new course. So I really have to come up with uh, you know, a whole new set of these um, you know, emails and assets, uh resources and all kinds of things like that. So I'm really trying to figure out like how to capture some leads early on and um nurture those leads until the course is ready and then continue providing value after the fact, you know, once they've already signed up for the course, what is gonna help them actually put these tools into practice with clients? So um, so that that's what's been taking up my brain space lately, but it's really fun. I really enjoy it and I'm excited about um releasing that to the world.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

Oh, I'm excited uh to to hear more about that project and we'll be in touch. And uh I want to see the success of that. I'll I'll I'm gonna be your secret stalker. Well, not so secret anymore, because I'm not telling that I'm gonna follow you along this journey. That uh I just want the ultimate success for you and for your business, and especially the you know, the the baby boomers phase right now, right? Are uh uh they're getting older and older, and your business and your model and and and aftercare loss specialists that you work with across your um teaching and training programs, uh, that there'll be more and more value each day to our society. So I respect your business so much that uh whenever whatever I can to help with clients in that situation, I do so I I it's just amazing to me how much you guys take care of your clients. And so I love your approach to the checklists, I love your approach to human humanity. I love that the story that you said that you you know you rise and and and you went through that scar moment where it's like this is what I'm going to do, this is wrong, this is how I'm going to do it, and I'm going to do it completely different. Um, Jasmine, if for the people that are listening and watching this episode, how where hair, where and how they can find you more about both business and about you as well.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Yeah, thank you, Johnny. Yeah, so um you are welcome to connect with me on LinkedIn. Um, you can find afterlosspros.com. That's um professionals of afterloss services. We are on all the socials at Afterloss Pros. That's probably the best way to find out what's going on with us. Um, and then compasscoordinators.com for my client serving business. Um, we also have a a little freebie um that we'll link in the show notes as well. That'll be your afterloss checklist. So that um can be helpful to get you started there.

SPEAKER_01 37:42

Perfect. Jasmine, once again, thank you so much for spending the time with me today. This was an absolutely great episode. Uh, most people, most especially business owners, with their ego being so high, we think that we're never going to pass away. But you know, leaving that legacy to your spouse and your kids and and that love letter per se, uh, it is an absolutely must. Uh, you guys go back and listen to what she said about all the steps that you take on your digital assets and so forth. Jasmine, once again, absolutely thank you. I love this episode. Um, and uh and I wish you the success of all the way for both business for you and your family.

SPEAKER_00 38:22

Thank you so much. It was a pleasure, Johnny. Thanks for having me.